Two, where gypsum wallboard meets Hardibacker, how does one address the resulting joint? The first waterproof cement backer board on the market, HardieBacker with HydroDefense … The thinset doesn’t need to bond to the plywood. Tara, The reason for the layer of thinset between the cement board and the subfloor is to fill the voids/gaps between the two. Fiberglass mesh for added strength. In my limited tiling experience, I followed the instructions exactly. And then you have thinset all over the plywood versus the tar paper and mesh that keeps the plywood nice and clean? Lastly, a different type of thinset adhesive is called mapei mortar. Spread thinset over a seam between backer board sheets with the short, flat edge of the trowel. NEVER under or over cement board on a floor. It's unfortunate that this attitude is so prevalent, and not just among DIYers, either. If not, throw it out and start a new batch. I always use 1/4" trowel for all my … What do we do at the transition between the cement board and the tub? Can you install cement board over drywall? 2 Answers. This cement-based backer board, made of 90% Portland cement and sand, resists damage from moisture, provides excellent tile adhesion, and is formulated with MoldBlock Technology to protect … If you are going to tile over the cement board, you should tape the seams. The nails or screws hold it down and the thinset holds it up. I have the HardiBacker board up and the seams are taped and mudded with alkali resistant mesh tape and thin-set. Use backer board screws for the best installation. And best honed carrera mosaic marble tile on that..then seal with best stuff.Even this job is INFERIOR to a tile set of 60-100 years ago.In a minor country like Lebenon everything..cielings..floors and all are poured CONCRETE.Don't say America is the "Best Country on Earth"..PROVE IT. Also, it makes sense. Has anyone used mortar between wood subfloor and the Hardiboard? Use extra fasteners on seams that are separating. Use either acrylic or latex modified thinset mortar or mastic compound as mortar for a shower wall installation. The existing floor consists of a base hardwood, and asbestos flooring on top (I believe there is a thin layer of plywood between the asbestos and the hardwood but not positive). The thinset and mesh tape are to strengthen the seams. Can you change your mind after signing a tenancy agreement? Which side of the Hardibacker backer board do I lay the tile? It is also used to set porcelain tile and natural stone tile. 2 in. Vinyl or hardie board plus color opinions. The seams between the Durock get a special mesh tape designed for cement board/Durock...NOT the mesh tape in the drywall section of the big orange box. Using 1/2″ Hardibacker for the shower transitioning into 1/2″ greenboard outside the shower. Mix powdered latex-reinforced cement mortar with water as directed on the package in a clean plastic bucket. HardieBacker® cement board is made better to install better and perform better. All Hardi seams are tapped with thinset. You need near 100% contact between the hardibacker and the underlying plywood, or the hardibacker will flex and cause your tiles to pop or crack. Many thin-sets have latex and polymer additives in them designed to increase bonding strength. I used about half as many as it called for.Now I did use Versabond between my tile and the hardibacker... My take on it is if you are a professional and warranty your work then follow the manufacturers instructions...if you're looking for a floor that will last 10 years then do what I did...if you want it to last 20...stick with the manufacturer's instructions...John Bridge's forums mention the mortar to use between the two...Logically, I just couldn't see the layer of thinset below the hardibacker then screwing all those screw on top it making a big difference...with as many screws as they recommend, that board is not moving no matter what is under it. The space is … The old mud jobs with the wire mesh and tar paper actually tear out with relative ease once you get underneath and get sections to break off. Answer + 3. Can be used for seaming most types of cement backer board and tile underlayment. If you are going to tile over the cement board, you should tape the seams. Mix up and apply a modified thinset to a large enough area of the plywood subfloor to cover each piece of backer board using a 1/4″ x 1/4″ notched trowel. I am at the taping/mudding stage. Make sure that the entire seam is covered with thinset and tape, and that the … All of the seams and corners get alkali resistant mesh tape embedded in thinset,,, no caulk. Also, one tile guy told me the only seams requiring taping are the corners. The fiberglass tape reinforces and strengthens the joint. I recommend using 100% silicone for this. Can you use 1/4 Hardibacker shower walls? Is this true. What about Versabond...is that kind of between unmodified and modified? That should be a big enough deal to make taping worth the effort. Is this true. Which side do I lay the the against? If the thinset sticks to your finger, it should still stick to the surface being tiled. Doing a tub tile repair. B. bob bob ... Is it ok to use mesh tape and thinset to bond the corners after the board is primed? At least that part is correct, but that was about it. I actually had a GC say this to me about two years ago. This QEP Backerboard Seam Tape Roll is self adhering to reduce application time. You are not a structural engineer, and often you are not aware if the framing system and wood panels on which the backer board … If you just want to leave the corners untreated that will probably be fine, because that seam won't split the center of a tile. How do you transition from cement board to drywall? The manufacturer says to use mortar or modified thinset with 1/4" trowel. When I mentioned this as a problem, that was his reply. HOA Dilemma - What Color Hardie Board Should We Pick? The thin-set is a cement-based powder that you mix with water or latex additive to form a thick paste, which is used to seal the seams in the board and can also be used to set the tile. The Hardie board is set into this mortar while it is still wet and nailed into the sub flooring. But you seem to be saying that actually they move somewhat independently. The surface of the Hardibacker looks too “coarse” for a smooth application of paint. It is simply put in place to eliminate voids beneath your backerboard. For tile backer board such as Durock, Wonderboard, Hardiebacker, Permabase, and others the seams between the board need to be treated with 2-inch alkali resistant mesh tape. I'm in the process of laying Hardibacker cement board over 3/4" plywood in my kitchen. It'll keep the cement board from moving up and down. Keep in mind, that tiling board seams are not like dealing with drywall...it doesn't need to look pretty and the tape doesn't need to be embedded fully, it will be when you add the thinset and tile. I guess the assumption is that once adhered, the Hardibacker and tile are essentially one unit. Cut fiberglass mesh tape to fit in a single layer over every joint where the panels meet, but do not overlap the tape. Subsequently, question is, does backer board need to be taped? Use thinset under the cement board and in the seams with tape. I know not to use mastic on a floor, but (in order to avoid the mess and work of thinset), I was thinking of use the premixed (fake) thinset under the hardibacker. width leaves a smooth surface for spreading mortar, thinset or mastic How could one not realize that the thinset helps prevent the Hardibacker from flexing downward and the screws help prevent it from flexing upward? Many thin-sets have latex and polymer additives in them designed to increase bonding strength. • Use the fastener pattern as a guide. I've never used it in any bath/kitchen remodel I've done and have never had a call back in years. Based on my understanding, I can use paper tape and joint compound to do Seam 1, and I can use alkali-resistant fibatape and thinset mortar to do Seam 4. • Use the fastener pattern as a guide. Why use a modified thinset, when the LAST thing you want to do is bond one layer to the other? But you seem to be saying that actually they move somewhat independently. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 4 of 4 Posts. Can be used for seaming most types of cement backer board and tile underlayment. The plan is to tile above the shower head, but not all the way to the ceiling (the upper most foot of hardiebacker and the ceiling we will paint). – user36043 Apr 27 '15 at 15:17 @treeNinja I'm pretty sure you can do without that second layer of plywood. Thinset mortar is commonly used for setting ceramic tile. All the manufacturers installation instructios say is to: Apply a supporting bed of mortar or modified thinset to subfloor using a 1/4" square-notched trowel. Sometimes it allows an unimpeded way for water to get behind the board and into the wall. I’m currently building a tile shower. The manufacturers say to use modified, and TCNA who is completely unbaised, says that you're better off using UNmodified thinset for all CBU. How could one not realize that the thinset helps prevent the Hardibacker from flexing downward and the screws help prevent it from flexing upward? This might be a strange question...but how do you gut a new installed bathroom floor? There is a rough side and a smooth side. Sealing Backerboard Seams . I am thinking, with a new installation, you have thinset and cement board with tons of screws, and then more thinset and tiles. Once laid into the thinset bed the floor becomes a solid, fully supported substrate for your tile – that’s what you want. This will prevent hardening in the bucket. Taping hardibacker seams after priming with Redgard. how to use alkali resistant joint tape between HardieBacker seams; and hopefully laugh a few times along the way; So let’s get to it. Position each piece of backer board in the thin-set, press in place, and attach using special backer board screws on the spacing recommended by the backer board manufacturer. I … Applying RedGard will block out moisture and yes, you would then need to use a polymer modified thinset. Mix the thin-set mortar according the instructions on the bag. It can make the difference between cracked or intact tiles over the joints. It's a big debate in the industry. I heard a reply that modified thinset should not be used because if you tear the floor out, it will be hard to get the backerboard up. (I haven't used any full strength RedGard yet). It's used to bond ceramic or porcelain tile and cement backerboard.) To assure less trouble upon future removal I have specified best 3/4 " plywood screwed down with lifetime coated screws..with a 5/8" plywood over that..THEN thinset/hardie board. Residing: wood or hardie board? The reason for the layer of thinset between the cement board and the subfloor is to fill the voids/gaps between the two. Although most backerboards currently available won’t fall apart when exposed to moisture and are somewhat water-resistant, they aren’t waterproof. A 120 square foot room with 16-inch tiles will take a minimum of three bags of thinset. Learn more. It'll keep the cement board from moving up and down. If you just want to leave the corners untreated that will probably be fine, because that seam won't split the center of a tile. Copyright 2020 FindAnyAnswer All rights reserved. Can you use joint compound on Hardibacker? Click to see full answer Moreover, what tape do you use for Hardibacker? Mix up enough mortar to fill in all seams and joints and cover the nail holes in the backer board. So I'll mesh and thinset the backer board at all joints and at angled conjunctions, silicone the tile. Has anyone used Krion stone or Blu stone tubs. Hardie backerboard will not seal out moisture completely, nor will thinset or grout. Shame, shame, for building disposable housing. This is probably because at one time the installation instructions for Hardibacker called for 3/32" inch of thinset underneath. I believe Durock is less expensive than Hardibacker, and works just as well. Embed 2” wide high-strength alkali-resistant glass fiber mesh in the mortar and level with a putty knife or trowel. If you just want to leave the corners untreated that will probably be fine, because that seam won't split the center of a tile. Jeff, thanks for responding. In order to provide a consistent surface layer for the tile, fill the seams of the backer board with the tile mortar and let it dry. If the thinset sticks to your finger, it should still stick to the surface being tiled. As mentioned before, the thinset fills the small gaps between plywood and cement board. Why tape a Hardibacker seam? An unmodified thinset (Masterblend) is fine between the Hardi and the subfloor. This should not be that difficult. Jeff, thanks for responding. The floors must also be fiberglass taped in the seams and thinset applied over the seams, just like the walls. What about Versabond...is that kind of between unmodified and modified? In this example We set one edge of the panel against the wall just underneath the toilet shut off valve and lowered it onto the thin-set. Types Of Mosaic Tiles […] OK...so what do I use...Flexbond, Masterblend, Versabond, etc???? I guess the assumption is that once adhered, the Hardibacker and tile are essentially one unit. This QEP Backerboard Seam Tape Roll is self adhering to reduce application time. Scoop up thinset on the flat edge of a 1/4-inch, square-notched trowel and spread the thinset across the plywood. • Apply a supporting bed of dry-set mortar or modified thinset to plywood with a 1/4 in square-notched trowel. To a lesser extent the correct screws were not used in the hardi – they committed the cardinal sin of using … Of course my contractors did not apply thinset b/t the hardibacker and existing floor. the backer has been down about four weeks and it was put down with roofing nails along with thinset. This ensures the floor is one unit and will move as one. That’s why it was named the most preferred brand of backer board by tile installers and contractors, according to the 2019 Tile and Stone Report conducted by ClearSeas research in partnership with the National Tile Contractors Association … Does Hermione die in Harry Potter and the cursed child? Cut all hardi boards to size with a reciprocating saw and fill in any gaps necessary. B. bob bob ... Is it ok to use mesh tape and thinset to bond the corners after the board is primed? Hi, I am re-doing my shower. Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 4 of 4 Posts. • Apply a supporting bed of dry-set mortar or modified thinset to plywood with a 1/4 in square-notched trowel. If you want to use a backer board with a built in moisture barrier than you should use DensShield by Georgia-Pacific. If you are going to tile over the cement board, you should tape the seams. Cement board, commonly sold under trade names such as Durock, Hardiebacker, and WonderBoard, is now the standard underlayment used for ceramic, porcelain, or stone tile laid with thinset mortar adhesive.Cement board is used for most floor tile and has all but replaced plywood and drywall backer materials for wall-tile … Which side of Hardibacker board goes down? Fiberglass mesh for added strength. Use thin-set mortar when installing cement backerboard. Thinset or mortar (or thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive made of cement, fine sand, and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. Make sure to tape seams and corners according the manufacturer recommendations. What's the difference between Koolaburra by UGG and UGG? Make sure to tape seams and corners according the manufacturer recommendations. If I use modified, is that technically a better beefy cement board installation? That means you If you thinset the tape (like you would during a normal sheetrock install) then apply more thinset and rake out you'll avoid the humps and bumps. IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY CARE ABOUT ITS STRUCTURES...people give they're lives for the sake of this country...it's a disgrace to not spend a few miserable bucks for the sake of it. What cars have the most expensive catalytic converters? Before the HardieBacker can be attached to the floor with screws you’ll need to add a supporting bed of modified thin-set. Divide the square footage of your project by 95 (the maximum coverage of a 50-pound bag of thinset. Also, one tile guy told me the only seams requiring taping are the corners. Answered. I double the 30 felt up staggering all seams. Lastly, would I save myself headaches by applying Hardiebacker for the entire job. Apply it just like masking tape and it will stick to the drywall until you apply thinset for the tile installation. Asked By: Yuxiang Indakoetxea | Last Updated: 8th February, 2020, Contrary to popular thought, tile and grout are not waterproof, and some moisture will penetrate even if, Passing ANSI 118.10 for waterproofness, HardieBacker® 500. Once all the backerboard is installed, all joints should be filled with thinset mortar. Hardibacker wants their product thinset and attached if it’s going to have tile installed over it. Complete the installation of all hardi board sections to cover the entire shower walls and floor if necessary. HardieBacker is particularly thirsty...liberally wipe it down with a wet sponge prior to adding thinset, or it will suck all of the moisture … Installing hardibacker on floor. If not, throw it out and start a new batch. Let the mortar dry completely before installing tile. Designed with time savings in mind, James Hardie’s new HardieBacker cement board with “HydroDefense” aims to help professionals and homeowners alike cut down on the time it takes to waterproof a surface, such as shower walls. Where does the filter go on a Goodman furnace? HardieBacker® cement board is made better to install better and perform better. That long term flexing can lead to … Joint compound or thinset?? Taping hardibacker seams after priming with Redgard. Mapei mortar is a type of polymer modified thinset used to install tile both on the floor and on a vertical … If you just want to leave the corners untreated that will probably be fine, because that seam won't split the center of a tile. To test if the thinset is still viable to use, test it with your finger. It's just IMPOSSIBLE to make a tile floor last more than a couple of years! Moreover, do you have to tape seams on Hardibacker? Use a trowel to apply a very thin layer of thinset to the top of the piece of fiberglass tape. Make sure the dimpled side of the HardieBacker is facing up toward you and the smooth side is … One may also ask, how much thinset do you put under Hardibacker? Hardibacker does not shread like cement board under pressure or jolts, but it adheres to thinset just as well. Personally, I'll listen to TCNA before I listen to a thing a manufacturer has to say, because TCNA has nothing but the welfare of the industry at heart when they do their r&d. … And what color? (I haven't used any full strength RedGard yet). I have not placed thinset on the seams yet. The thinset and mesh tape are to strengthen the seams. As for the … Fasten HardieBacker cement board with specified nails or screws (as listed in “Materials Required") every 8 in over the … If you are going to tile over the cement board, you should tape the seams. Should we tape and mud between the two and cover with redguard? I just tiled my third room today...I didn't put thinset between the subfloor and mortar...I spoke to many people on this....from my experience...40% don't even put hardibacker down, of those who do less than 50% use thinset between it and subfloor and almost no one taped and mortared the seams (1/8th inch thick)...granted I have only spoken with about 30 folks (5 being professional installers) on tiling but interesting results...I also didn't use the recommended number of screws...most don't use Hardibacker screws, just roofing screws which were cheaper and do just as well. The first coat of RedGuard is applied. 2 Answers. All seams have been taped and filled with thinset mortar. Similarly, should you tape Hardibacker? Once laid into the thinset bed the floor becomes a solid, fully supported substrate for your tile – that’s what you want. 1 - What are your thoughts on applying thinset to adhere stacked stone to wall...Apply directly to painted sheetrock? The best way to know if you need to use ummodified thinset or thinset mortar is to determine the tile you are installing and ask a professional or store associate. Resources. Currently, Hardibacker calls for either 1/4" thinset, or 5/32" mastic underneath. By using the trowel, you should be able to get a very smooth and level. The reason I asked about the type of thinset, I used modified, I have not yet laid the tile. By continuing to browse this site or use this app, I agree the Houzz group may use cookies and similar technologies to improve its products and services, serve me relevant content and to personalise my experience. In most cases, you can apply tile directly to the concrete. The thinset and mesh tape are to strengthen the seams. When I walk on the backer, I seem to "hear" movement although my floor meets the deflection requirements. As mentioned before, the thinset fills the small gaps between plywood and cement board. Best Thinset For Hardibacker. The thinset is not meant to ‘stick down’, adhere, or otherwise attach your backerboard to your subfloor. expansion and contraction occurs in the plywood, and the plywood takes the movement (thats why you dont tape or glue the seams … To test if the thinset is still viable to use, test it with your finger. They're sort of the Consumer's Reports of the tile trade. Alkali tape applied to all Hardieboard seams. The thinset and mesh tape are to strengthen the seams. Thinset or mortar (or thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive made of cement, fine sand, and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. What should the thin-set … How do you palpate fundus after delivery? How to Mix Thinset-It’s Like Making Pancakes! It was all … Is it recommended to put tar paper under a cement board installation???? One of the most common installation concerns with backer board is cracking of the tile along the seams of the sheets. And then people wonder why their floors don't last. Step 4. Once you put the tape down on the joint, cover it with more thinset. Does anything go? cement backer board fine You need near 100% contact between the hardibacker and the underlying plywood, or the hardibacker will flex and cause your tiles to pop or crack. The amount of thinset you need is calculated by the square footage of the floor or wall, the size of the tile, and the size of notched trowel you use to spread it. I heard a reply that modified thinset should not be used because if you tear the floor out, it will be hard to get the backerboard up. Sheets of HardiBacker cement tile-backer are cut to fit, then fastened with thinset mortar and special screws. Leave as is? Fasten HardieBacker cement board with specified nails or screws (as listed in “Materials Required") every 8 in over the … Normally, dry times range from 12 to 24 hours. Rough or smooth side? Pack in thinset, lay on the tape, and flat-knife to get … Backer board:For backer board on floors, specifically cement board and fiber cement boards (think Hardibacker), it’s my understanding that it doesn’t matter which thinset you use. Finally, you'll need an 8 x 12-ft. piece of 4-mil plastic sheeting and some straight 2x4s. The backer board comes in different sizes and you will pick the right one depending on the type of … I came in to do a tile floor, where he'd already put down the cement board, and of course, there wasn't a drop of thinset between the CBU and subfloor. One of the most common installation concerns with backer board is cracking of the tile along the seams of the sheets. What are the cultural beliefs of Pangasinan? It was installed with hardibacker over the subfloor and thinset. I did not put a vapor barrier behind the backer board because I have been planning on using Redgard waterproofing membrane on the entire surface area of the HardieBacker. Do I need to waterproof shower walls before tiling? One solution is to nail cement backer board CBUs over the drywall, tape the seams, and then grout over the cement backer board. Spread the mortar in a thin layer over the joints and seams of the hardie board using even strokes to create a … 2 Answers. If there is an area where Hardibacker will show it's weakness it's in the seams, but as long as you take the time to tape them and thinset them there is little to be … Actually, it's a midrange modified thinset, about equivalent to Mapei's Ultraflex II, Laticrete's 253, or Hydroment's Single Flex. An unmodified thinset (Masterblend) is fine between the Hardi and the subfloor. Whether you’re laying down a new tile floor or installing a shower, you may use a sheathing material such as backerboard. I'm figuring that the slow dry time and water-sensitivity won't matter here, especially because it will be a week between the time I lay the backer and the time I start to tile. Drying times vary based on the type of mortar you will use for the tile. (Thin-set mortar ingredients are cement, fine sand and a water retaining agent. What is Hardibacker used for? We installed .5” HardiBacker around the tub, posted off the top of the tub flange 1/8”. The ONLY time tar paper should be used under tile is either as a vapor barrier BEHIND the cement board for wall installation around a tub or shower, or as what's called a "cleavage membrane underneath a thickbed mud installation. The Floor Elf: Installing Cement Backerboard for Tile in a Shower ; 1/4 Before you get started, you should determine if your floor is suited to HardieBacker Cement Board. Can redguard be used on Hardie board? Regarding this, can you use either side of Hardibacker? I have Hardibacker. The thinset is not meant to ‘stick down’, adhere, or otherwise attach your backerboard to your subfloor. Take the HardieBacker panel and embed it into the wet thin-set. Sometimes tiles will pop loose where there's movement. It is simply put in place to eliminate voids beneath your backerboard. The tape was exactly what I needed for the tiled wall repair. Mastic can also be used with a 5/32 in V-notched trowel. The tile will receive caulk at changes of plane. Do you need to waterproof cement board before tiling? references USG Corporation: Durock Cement Board Next Gen National Gypsum: Permabase Cement Board Glenda Taylor Glenda Taylor is a contractor and a full-time writer … Wipe dust and debris from the joints between the Durock panels. Thin-set dries slowly, allowing you to fix and readjust backerboard sheets as needed. I cut out a section of sheet rock and replaced it with wonder board, taped the seams, thin set the joints, and retiled the replacement section. Instead it’s part of a system with the fasteners. The thinset and mesh tape are to strengthen the seams. Continue filling the joints until all the seams contain mortar and the top of the seams are smooth. If there is another company that wants you to install that product differently then you’ll have to check with the radiant floor company as to why, how they do want … HardieBacker cement board is a tile underlayment made for wet areas like kitchens and bathrooms. So I'll mesh and thinset the backer board at all … By taping the hardi you help make this layer one. Only make enough thinset that you can use within 20-30 minutes. Need to re-install tiles after putting new section of backer board. Similarly, should you tape Hardibacker? Only make enough thinset that you can use within 20-30 minutes. I’m going to use mesh and mastic for the corner seam and two seams inside the shower but I was wondering what others use for the transition from cement board to drywall that … There was no thinset beneath the hardi and the seams between the sheets were not taped and thinsetted. Provide support behind seams that run parallel to wall framing. Plan the installation so the last column of tiles overlaps the joint between the cement board and the greenboard if possible. The idea is the hardibacker and the tile are one layer, together. Cover an area large enough to place the first backer board sheet. Can I use drywall mesh tape for cement board? If I use modified, is that technically a better beefy cement board installation? Fasten the backer board to the floor using proper nails or screws as recommended by the manufacturer every 8 around the perimeter and all supporting the studs. If you are going to tile over the cement board, you should tape the seams. At least that part is correct, but that was about it. You should use alkali-resistant CBU tape because the alkali in the thiset can degrade regular fiberglass drywall tape. There was no thinset beneath the hardi and the seams between the sheets were not taped and thinsetted. Using thinset mortar and special tape to seal the seams between the sheets is also necessary. That long term flexing can lead to problems down the road. Seam on 2nd layer centered on middle of first layer. Mastic can also be used with a 5/32 in V-notched trowel. Cement backer board on concrete as a subfloor or underlayment is usually not recommended or needed. It depends on who you talk to as to whether or not it should be used. This will prevent hardening in the bucket. That’s why it was named the most preferred brand of backer board by tile installers and contractors, according to the 2019 Tile and Stone Report conducted by ClearSeas research in partnership with the National Tile Contractors Association and TILE Magazine.